Linda's Blog
I have never created a blog before. I wonder if anyone will read it.
Most everyone here at oak and mistletoe is located in Australia. I wonder if the indigenous people there are an integral part of society there or if they are fringe-dwellers, like Native Americans are here in the US. I don't mean that their culture is not vital, but are they disincluded, sort of out-of-sight,out-of-mind as minority groups are in other parts of the world. It has always been difficult to see those original inhabitants of parts of the world disenfranchised from their land and hemmed in from their original, usual and accustomed ranges and practices.
When I began researching Wicca, my question was "Did European tribal people have the same, or similar, basic beliefs and practices as Native Americans or other "basic" peoples around the world ?", pre-Chrisiian invasion-wise, that is. The question was unique to me, because I have both Native and European ancestors. And, it made sense, because when you think about it, at some point, some person had to come out of a cave somewhere and decide that there was more to the world than what they could physically see. Chances are that the people who did that in Europe had the same patterns of spiritual development, at first, as people in other parts of the world.
When I stacked what I learned about Wicca up against Native American Traditionalism, now, understand, I mean reasonable Wicca, not fanatic, rigid, exclusive Wicca, but eclectic, inclusive Wicca. (I also studied Celtic, Germanic, Nordic, Mongol and other European/Asian spirituality), as it included indigenous European tribal practices that could be recreated from what past sources there were available, coupled with positive modern ideas stemming from modern enlightened thought (also understanding that Wicca is a modern religion in which one can include recreated ancient rites). The differences are fewer than one might think.
The biggest similarity is acceptance. The biggest difference is the concept of possession.
It makes me think that in the beginning of spiritual thinking, the time following the advent of someone realizing there is something more to the world than the physical, the concept of the divine was to enhance the one to the benefit of the whole. That is, the individual would seek to be enhanced by the divine to hunt, gather, procreate to the success of the family/clan/village, since only the success of the family/clan/village could insure the endurance of the individual's immediate family, or to their way of life. Of course that is assuming that they felt responsibility and kinship with f/c/v.
If it began with the individual only concerned with self, which it could have been, then they found that individual success begat fam/clan/village success.
Well, my point, at any rate, is that indigenous people's basic beliefs are both individual and for the good of the whole. Unlike most modern European practices, It was probably that way in the beginning for Europeans too, before the Chrisian onslaught. We could learn a lot by paying attention to those in our midst who are living their indigenous beliefs. They may not be what we do, but it is ancient, to the beginning of the world, passed down by a population that has endured through to this time. Many have adapted and tried, and included new things that work, but it is worth looking at the ancient and the adapted to see success.
That being said...
Remember, Do not usurp the practices of others. The indigenous beliefs of ancient peoples have been paid for in the blood of their ancestors. Genocide and violence have been the hallmark of forced assimilation. Do not think that you understand the concepts or thoughts behind an ancient culture's beliefs. To assume the mantle without living the life (or paying the price) is a perversion that no right-minded person would commit. Please, respect and venerate the beliefs and practices of ancient people, protect it, do not pretend it.
peace,
Linda
Comments
I've been reading - the origin of consciousness
I know this is an older book, but I am enjoying reading "The Origin of Consciousness in the breakdown of the bicameral mind" by Julian Jaynes. His idea is that the realization of consciousness is a fairly recent event and that when humans thought that they were receiving visions from a higher power, they were actually experiencing communication from one side of their brain to the other. He says that this was the only way that communication could take place at that time.
It is interesting that some of his ideas make perfect sense. It stretched my mind to think of language as a lexicon in which metaphor is stretched to explain new experiences, to try to make sense of new things. However, as we know science is not about truth, but about the pursuit of truth by means of observable fact, so I can't say that his ideas are correct, simply that being uneducated in the fine points of psychology, so far, it seems to make sense.
This doesn't mean, though, that I disbelieve in divine/communication, or ecstatic revelation. They are important parts of life and I am not throwing them to the side because of these ideas. I think that the mind is a marvelous thing and a window not only into itself, but into the cosmos.
I am also reading the Isaakson Einstein biography. I have always been interested in physics and mathematics. I think that in order to perceive the world the way mathematicians and physicists do, you have to be taught, or maybe inclined to see the world the way it really works, mechanically. It's like when you see the color of a crayon, what you are really seeing is the wavelength of light that the crayon reflects back to your eye. You will never know what color the crayon really is, just the color that bounces off it and back into your eye. Sometimes I think that all I see is what is reflected back to me. All I see is the beauty, or the image that is reflected into my eye, not the million processes that are taking place right in front of me. If I could see those then maybe I could understand how the world and the universe works.
when I look at a table, I see the solid tabletop. I know that there are a jillion atoms, and a quadzillion little particles all vibrating so closely together that I see it as solid, but when you delve into it, into the smallest parts, therein lie the fundamental building blocks of the universe, of ourselves. The mysteries of electron clouds and attractions, space and time. I do not understand it, I wish I did, I want to. It will take a total head turn-around to understand it, because it is so totally alien to me, I like the reflected beauty, but it's like living in ignorance, when the real stuff is going on under the surface.
Then again the world of beauty is what we were made to see. It's where we were made to live. So, enjoy it I say.
another thing,
I have read that scientists think that our mitochondria, in our cells, may be the remains of the dna of a bacteria that made it's way into some ancestor cell. So do you think that the bacteria were the catalysts that brought together cells into multicellular organisms as a protective device, that because multi-cell organisms lived longer and could do more to survive that they lived while others did not, and so evolved into lerger and larger collections of cells that survived because of their ability to carry on life sustaining processes? Are we really the result of a blueprint for a colony of bacteria long since gone, or integrated into our cells?
Geez, I love this stuff.
random musings on community vs. individuality
Hello from B.C. Just idly thinking about what you are saying about the development of community well-being, as sort-of opposed to individual well-being.
The Native people locally have a strong culture. Many live in their traditional village sites (which are reserves) but in modern houses. Many work in the adjacent small town and go home at night to the reserve; or they choose to live in the town. Native and white (and Asian and East Indian) people get along peaceably enough and often intermarry There is knowledge of Native customs. Culture-specific programmes, for example at the library, are designed to include, rather than assimilate or segregate, Natives. But there is a barrier. In part I am sure that is a barrier bred of history: exploitation, exclusion. But also it is what I hope is a barrier of respect for the Natives. To protect a culture, there sort of has to be a cultural barrier. So non-Natives might adopt some of the concepts, but don't pretend to the same spiritual traditions, nor burst in on ceremonies. It would be like walking into somebody else's family gathering. Basically, the bands are big families, and are interdependent. No, I would not want to wear the mantle of the Native Americans, as you speak of it, without having paid the price. Though I'm sure that plenty of my own ancestors further back in time had to pay in blood for their own beliefs.
I live in a very small and rather remote community, which is largely live-and-let-live, which is wonderful. We like to think of ourselves as independent people. But if some emergency comes up, people pull together and Make Things Work. Not all the same people all the time, either. However, unless we were all living alone in the bush, fending for ourselves, I think that our notion of independence is largely illusory. There is always that dependence on the electric company, or the highway maintenance contractor, or a supply of gasoline to run chainsaws for "independently" obtained furnace fuel; or sometimes even on a neighbour to drive us in to the doctor, if we are unable to do so, ourselves. Somewhere, we are always depending either on a big corporation or another person (or Mother Nature!), no matter how we might tend to forget it. Even for one person to order chicks from a hatchery, to raise an "independent", humane supply of meat and eggs, means dealing on a larger scale than is practical for one person. What I am toying with now is gathering enough interested people to partner in some individually-too-large livestock orders, and cooperate to get what we individually want. I guess it's not so much about knuckling under to mega-corp, so much as recognizing its role and tailoring terms for its place in our lives; and at the same time, building community among individuals to work together for our greater benefit, to meet our individul goals. Not negating our individual selves, but building interdependence. Perhaps that recognized interdependence is a little of what you are speaking of, relating to indigenous/non-Christian European cultures?
Don't know if this is followable. Thank you for letting me ramble!
Unfortunately
The state of the Aboriginal nations in Australia is utterly appalling. My work in Australia involves an amount of indigenous health care and it is to Australia's shame that the life expectancy of Aboriginal peoples is considerably lower than for non-Aboriginal peoples. In fact we have the largest infection rate in the entire world (including the third world) for syphillus - due to its under-treatment in Aboriginal people. But this is a complex problem with prejudice and bitterness from both sides and very little effective communication and participation from both sides. I hope you will join with me in continuing to pray for reconcilliation between all people.
Out of interest have you ever read any of the books by Lynn Andrews? who is a white American who claims to have been initiated into not only the North American Indian Religions but also the Australian Aboriginal Womens AND Mens mysteries as well as the ancient Celtic pre-christian tradition in England and the ancient Japanesse traditions as well as the South American traditions. I choose to see her books as fiction but many do not and she has a large following in the US. Despite my disbelief in her allegations her books DO make for interesting reading and it is clear that she has managed to weave the myths and traditions of many ancient indigenous beliefs into a fascinating (and profitable) empire.
I mention her because she also has her own website and although I find her books rather fantastical they DO contain some very real and genuine spiritual truth (and who am I to judge for another - maybe she has done all of the things she claims) and she has a forum where many people discuss the very topics you raise. A google search for Lynn Andrews Forum will locate the address.
In Love and Light
David
Comments on Linda's Blog
Hi Linda, lovely to see you posting a blog. A couple of bits of feedback for you. While many of our students are Australian, in fact at least half of our students are from the USA. So this means that you have more in common with many more students than you realised.
In terms of our indigenous folks, some are fringe dwellers most definately and some are part of the broader "white"Australia, very similar to the US>
Smiles and blessings,
Amethyst
With smiles and blessings,
Amethyst
Oak and Mistletoe Founder, Elder and Chair
generations
Hi Linda I live in Arizona and am many generations removed from my Celtic ancestors, but from what I have studied of Gaelic and been introduced to Navajo there are many similarities between the two language structures. There is also many other similarities between what little we know of the Druids and the Navajo medicine or magick. I am not saying they are exact matches by any stretch but I can tell you that if you took people from both cultures and mixed them it wouldn't take a big leap for them to fit right in. The traditions of both are handed down generation to generation, both have medicine men/druid priests to over see and bless and protect. Both worked metal and artistically crafted. Both revere nature. The mythology is similar in terms of great warriors and shape shifting spirits. Both have sacred areas where ceremony is performed the druids there groves the Navajo there back canyons. It's just really interesting and a good observation on your part!
Hey all
Thanks for the comments.
I am trying to work out a plan for inter-group cooperation and self-sustainance. Where we, here, who have an abundance of salmon and other seafood, as well as other resources, can trade with and benefit from other groups with other resources.
We could, say, send a thousand pounds of Salmon to a group, who would then send us a comparable amount of buffalo or whatever protein they could harvest in their region. What I am trying to work out is this. We have an enormous amount of salmon protein that goes to waste here, or goes to fish brokers who sell to retail outlets, who sell it to consumers for very high prices.
I am trying to work it so this good proteirn does not go to waste for want of a buyer (because it's not considered a beautivul enough fish), or only to people who can afford to pay high prices for the primo food fish. It seems to me that if we could get this good quality protein to, especially, low income kids, then those kids could have the protein in their bellies and brains, and be better prepared to educate themselves to make good decisions.
Although food banks help families, they often give a lot of sugary sweets that have not been sold from stores that contribute to the food banks. These sweets are most attractive to the youngest in the families, and those who are depressed due to hopelessness in their lives. This is like giving drugs to pacify the poor masses. their health, mental acuity and ability to motivate themselves diminishes and they sink deeper into the dispair of poverty.
Now, Understand, I'm not saying that people who like sugary foods are not smart, what I am saying is that it is the same self-perpetuating cycle as you see when you go through poor neighborhoods here, The most liquor stores, head shops, and gun stores are in poor neighborhoods. It's almost as though the governmental powers that be have decided that since they can't publicly dispose of low income people they are allowing, or encouraging,them to kill themselves.
Don't think I'm trying to be anyone's savior, I know whereof I speak, I have been in that cycle myself. My thought is that if we can help provide kids with better protein, they might make better decisions.
Families and elders can benefit,too. The process could be open to anyone. I am investigating the reasonability of this possibility. There will have to be money somewhere to pay for processing, storage, and transport, so I am wrestling with that part now. Any ideas?
Fringe dwellers. thats an excellent and terrible way to describe indiginous populations. It shows the shadowy way they live in someone else's world. First peoples are like and unlike Europeans. All the pan=human qualities apply, heart, sense of humor, needs. The differences are in the concepts. Sharing is a concept that seems so foreign to Europeans. Different wants, Many Europeans don't understand those either. The effects of colonialism are deep and often unexpected. Sometimes you have to understand that you don't understand, and may not ever, but you can accept and recognize another's right to have their own thoughts and place. It takes all of us to turn the wheel of the world, when any one of the turners is weakened, it is harder to turn the wheel and the balance won't be kept.
I have heard that in Canada Natives may be better respected than here in the US. I was very happy when, at an Olympic Games opening ceremony in Canada, Native dancers began the opening ceremony. If things are better there I am happy for them. Here, too often Natives are seen either as stereotypes, or enemies, or people who create their own problems, more that other peoples do. This is a deep and dynamic subject, and someone is sure to point out that I am not an expert in internal government or cultural affairs, so I will say this, I have lived this, I can't speak for everyone, but I can speak for me.
I have never read any books by Lynn Andrews, but whenever someone tells me that they have been "initiated into" any indigenous cultures spirituality, it makes me instantly suspicious. Dabblers of all kinds are famous for this. As with anything, you can do it, go through the motions, even carefully and with grood intent participate, but only by sharing all of that cultures life and history can you understand it. (Give it twenty or thirty years, have a couple of kids with an indigenous person, watch those kids grow up with all of the wonders and troubles of being an indigenous person, truly participate in the culture then write a book about it). The way I see it is this, if you want to know something, ask an indigenous person. Some may react negatively, but you will find someone to talk to you about it, if you keep asking.
There are probably truths in her books, and it could be that she is a true seeker, but that doesn't mean that she understands anything. Conversations, participation, and initiation are all beginnings, deep understanding and appreciation are another. Can a person understand the truth of another? parts, i think, When it comes to other genders, perhaps and other cultures, possibly, but the effort it requires is demanding.
You may find that it is the way for you, or not, accept the answer that you are given and act accordingly. Sometimes you think it's one thing only to be moved naturally into another thing, and sometimes back to where you started, with a greater understanding of yourself, your place in the universe, your ability and the knowledge of when, where and how to use it.